‘For my direct dealing with Sonia Gandhi, I will give credit to Rahul’

Man of the moment, SP national general secretary Amar Singh is an adept at skating the political arena. An exhaustive and combative interview with HARINDER BAWEJA and SHOBHITA NAITHANI

Photo: Vijay Pandey

Why this sudden turn around by the Samajwadi Party? You had opposed the deal on the floor of the house, so what changed?
For the four years despite giving support to this government, we were not involved in any interaction formal or informal. And even the support given to this government wasn’t acknowledged. So whatever people may say, I am not trying to be unnecessarily polite and humble about it because the past may have been sweet or bitter but it is a reality. And I cannot shy away. I always had a good relationship, at a personal not political level, with Dr Manmohan Singh. He did not tom-tom about it. I’m also not a person to tom-tom about it. And because of my support rendered to the UPA government I have always been invited for the annual UPA dinner barring one year – when UPA elections took place and relations were very bitter. Particularly this year when I got an invite along with Bahujan Samaj Party, I did not go early not because of any ego or prejudice but I had nothing to celebrate for the four years of UPA being in power because I was not a part of it. I was not involved. I took a decision at my party level that all of us will go because first the Prime Minister is a friend, secondly, he is a decent, honorable gentleman and thirdly he is the PM of the nation.

As a matter of fact, I asked Comrade Sitaram Yechury that if you are all attending (because there was a buzz that they aren’t attending), we will go. Yechury didn’t reply and then I called up Karat. Karat’s reply was short and crisp. He said I believe you are invited so come along. I was in a flux. Seeing the distance and the past experiences, I didn’t know what should be my behavioural pattern. So I assembled all my party MPs at my party headquarters and we went there. Soup and dinner was over and dessert was being served. And I saw that my seat, which was kept on the right side of the Prime Minister along with Yechury’s, was occupied by Dr Karan Singh. I sat in a remote corner fearing that somebody like Rajiv Shukla might come and ask me to leave. I was frightened, skeptical, awkward and so in a way I was relieved that my seat was occupied and that the formality of responding to the PMs invitation would be over and that I would be able to quietly sneak out like I sneaked in. I was not throwing my weight around like Subbirami Reddy. But all of a sudden I saw the PM coming towards my table. He sat by my side and saw to it that I ate my food. He said ‘our respect is mutual’ and that became headlines. There the media said the nuclear deal was raked. So I said in the presence of the PM that I had never been consulted on any issue by this government. And whatever knowledge I have is through Leftist friends. On their insistence and briefing I have taken a stand. If government feels like giving us a brief as a political entity, I am open to it. And thereafter because of my ailment I went to the US for 20 days and I forgot everything. When I came back I got a call from National Security Advisor MK Narayanan and he said he would like to meet me. I requested Mulayam Singhji to come along because I am a very junior humble party man.

But he refused and asked me and Ram Gopal Yadav to go since I had initiated the debate in the Rajya Sabha and Ram Gopal in the Lok Sabha. So the date and time were fixed and just before he (Narayanan) was to arrive, Jaswant Singh came to see me and Mulayam Singh. I cannot refuse Jaswant Singh or Advaniji because if they want to come its an honour. In politics the new meaning of rivalry is enmity. But rivals can also become friends. We are from the old school of politics. Like Arun Jaitely is a good friend. Jaswant Singh is not a friend but I hold him in high esteem. Then I informed Narayanan that a lot of media is here and Jaswant Singh is also here and that he should organise a meeting somewhere out from the prying eyes of the media. Jaswant Singh told me that earlier I had given you a proposal that on the pattern of VP Singh’s support, BJP and Left should support from outside and UNPA – which means Mulayam Singh, because we have numbers – should become Prime Minister and that we would have got rid of this Italian government then. He used these words.

So you rejected that? Jaswant Singh has said that the UNPA could not decide on a Prime Ministerial candidate?
Though we weren’t in a good relationship with the Congress, even then we rejected that. We told Jaylalithaji to tell Advaniji and Jaswant Singhji that we cannot support Bhairon Singh Shekhawat as President because of our ideological differences. We said we won’t destabilise a secular government and moreover the Left will never support this move to go along with the BJP inside or outside like the VP Singh arrangement. So we did not meet Advaniji or Jaswant Singhji. We asked for an apology that we could not meet you not because we don’t like you, but because you are representing the BJP – a political mission – so it was not proper for us to see you there.

But Jaswant has said categorically that the UNPA could not agree on the Prime Ministerial candidate?
Listen to me. He told us, no you are wrong that the BJP and the Left won’t come together. That this time, for the removal of this Italian government, the BJP, the Left and the BSP have come together. And if you also come along then all Indians will overthrow this Italian set up. I heard him and said sir it’s not possible and we are not going to be party to this come what may. Our bitterness and acrimony apart, this kind of destabilisation in politics is not good. Now that we had got a meeting with the National Security Advisor, the Brajesh Mishra of this regime, I told him I would like to take advantage of his presence in my house and asked him for his take on the nuclear deal and told him that he should support this because you are considered pro-American. So I still have a handwritten negative note about the nuclear deal that he got for me. It is like a souvenir for me. I thought it is a good preamble because Jaswant Singh is not an ordinary man. He is very senior. I may say that he is number two in the BJP after Advani after Atalji’s absence. I took that paper with his objections and also Comrade Karat’s objections -- which were identical on the nuclear deal – and met Narayanan. He briefed us point by point. The basic concern of Samajwadi party about relationship with Iran was also clarified by Narayanan saying that I am coming from Iran today and that the Iran-Pakistan-India gasline is happening… that whatever Americans say, we are not going to pay any heed to that. Our foreign policy and nuclear autonomy is going to be absolutely sovereign. And he said now are you satisfied. Then I said it is not a question of my satisfaction in this closed room. It has become very messy and controversial because major political forces – BJP, BSP, Natwar Singh formally with your set up– have repeatedly said so many things. They have created great confusion. I would like to tell the media about the this meeting.

In normal circumstances I would have not leaked to the media that I am going to meet the NSA because unlike my friends like Rajiv Shukla and Subbarami Reddy, I don’t want to bask in reflected glory syndrome. That’s not my style. But there was a method behind my madness. I wanted to tell the whole world, society and country as a whole that we have been formally consulted for the first time. It was July 2 – just a day before the third UNPA meet. So all the negativity of the nuclear deal from Jaswant Singhji and Comrade Karat, I handed over to him and said that all these questions I will pose to the PM through the media and I will expect him to give me and the nation a reply through media. Frankly speaking, I never thought that the reply will come and that my problem would be over. But very swiftly, because very seldom has the government consulted me for anything for four years and I still remember incidents with senior Congressman. My friend Digvijay Singh had some work with me and I went to his house. And later I heard that he was pulled up for seeing me. So people used to tell me all kinds of wild stories that any Congressman seen in your company he gets reprimanded so I had no hope. But within two hours, in the intranet of the PMO, the point-by-point strong rebuttal and clarification of all the confusion came. And that should have sufficed because the Prime Minster does not belong to a party or to a grouping. He belongs to the country and that too a man of Manmohan Singh’s standing and stature. But knowing the anti-Congressism prevalent over the national issue in my grouping, I thought to hold a UNPA meeting next day and I placed that reply.

So most of my colleagues, I don’t want to name anyone because they are all friends and I never know what will happen in politics tomorrow, so there is no point in exposing them. He said why are you doing this to give clarity to the confusion which is the problem of Congress. So I said I don’t think in that light. The deal is with India and America. And I have to assess whether the deal is for our country or against our country. If it is for our country, we should go ahead with it irrespective of government or party because country is bigger than government, party and individual. And if it is not good for country, then all of us should more aggressively oppose it. I said that NSA was good enough and I think Manmohan Singhji has seen a lot of grace and he was very magnanimous to be fair to him because who the hell am I. I am a very small fry. So if I raise a question and demand a reply for my questions (he mentioned these are Amar Singh’s queries) and this is my reply for one and all. Om Prakash Chautala proposed that we should all go to APJ Abdul Kalam. He was a unanimous choice of this group because he is a Bharat Ratna and nobody can say that he is UPA’s person. The UPA, Soniaji, Manmohan Singhji and Prakash Karat thought that Pratibha Patil was better than Kalam and they all supported Pratibha Patil over Kalam. So as a matter of fact, Kalam has no reason to placate Manmohan Singh, Sonia or the set up.

So this allegation that Kalam is their man won’t stand. I don’t know about other leaders in the country, they may claim to be more knowledgeable than Kalam, we are not. I have no shame in accepting our ignorance in nuclear field. Kalam is of Dr Bhabhaji’s stature because he is the father of the missile, father of nuclear weaponisation. He told us about the entire problem in a simple manner. He said thorium-based reactors will take another 20 years and existing reactors aren’t functioning because of the lack of the Uranium supply and explosion is not needed because we have already done five. We are a nuclear weapon state and as a matter of fact we should have been in the NSG state. And this deal is good for the country. I don’t know about your politics. As politicians you decide without compromising with the sovereignty of the country for clean energy, for medicine and agriculture. The civil nuclear energy is good for the country and as a nationalist without any bias I am saying this. Then I said I am in a fix because we had opposed it and there is no point in sticking to an ego trip. I said we will have to take you on board and can we go out because the media is waiting and say that we have consulted with you and quote you. He agreed very kindly.

You have extended your support to the deal but what is the deal behind the deal?
The problem is that small people are occupying big posts. And everything is materialistic. Nobody will believe it that we have done it not for any greed or lust for power. We felt small that we are doing something blatantly wrong without realizing. Mulayam Singh is a simple, rural ethos person. He said any front – Third Front or any other – any settlement will take place only if the country remains. If we are compromising with country, then where will politics and politicians go? We are meant to do good for the country. And it’s a historical role that we can play. If Dr Kalam is saying this because he has no greed…

But Kalam has said this earlier also. Much earlier.
But like us politicians, our priority and focus is not there. Even UPA has not utilised this. There is nothing new that Manmohan Singh has said to me. But the entire thing came into focus with my effort.

Which is why it is difficult for people to believe that the SP is suddenly supporting the Congress in the national interest…
Whatever people might feel, but it was never focused in a precise manner like this, it was never prioritised. After Kalam’s certificate,

High Company: 'Eating with the Bachchans is not a big deal' Photo: Shailendra Pandey

it was very painful because it was being said that it is a Hindu deal and a Muslim deal. For the first time a deal was being clubbed as Hindu and Muslim and a CPM politburo member and Mayawati were holding the same line. It was very disgusting. So we took a decision and we informed Manmohan Singh and Soniaji that this deal is all right and we are supporting this deal in the national interest. People may not believe but you go and ask Congress, ask Sonia Gandhi and her representatives. We have not asked for anything. If with four MPs Ram Vilas Paswan is holding so many portfolios, if with 10 MPs Sharad Pawar is holding so many portfolios, if Lalu has got so many portfolios, with 39 we can also bargain for many things. But we have asked for nothing. No ministerial berth, no perks, no speaker seat. Only thing we have said is that we had two problems with the government – first was this deal, which Narayanan’s clarification sorted and price rise and inflation and the Petroleum Minister’s attitude about windfall remains unsettled. Because for petroleum and price rise we had organised a joint conference with Left and UNPA leaders and we quoted the rest also. So for us to retract that is not possible.

This report that we want to see heads roll is absolutely absurd. We have got no business to do that kind of thing. This is the job of the government. And if the Manmohan Singh government is able to sustain their liabilities and deeds, that is their problem. They are running the government. We are not in it. We don’t want a pie in this government. And you are saying it is difficult to believe. Yes you are right. It is difficult to believe because any good thing is difficult to believe and it is also difficult to believe people like Vinod Mehta who are saying we will negotiate, we will do hard bargain and we are a different kettle of fish. We are middle class people, we are not educated in St Stephens, we have been to public school, we lack the public sophistication and particularly Mulayam Singh Yadav is a rural folk. Poor fellow is not articulate in our anglicised atmosphere. So he may be an object of instant dislike for the Tavleen Singhs and Vinod Mehtas of the world. So I don’t blame them. But contrary to what they believe, Mulayam Singh is not that kind of a person. We have not asked for anything. We don’t want anything. There is no deal behind the deal. Yes one reason I will tell. Total non-communication of the government earlier was definitely one of the causes. Inspite of supporting this government, they were not talking, paying any credence. The UPA-Left coordination committee was there. The Indo-US nuclear committee was there. People like Ram Vilas Paswan with four MPs were part of this. All kinds of leaders were part of this and we were out.

So you now feeling flattered and wooed?
It is not a question being flattered and wooed. It’s the question of doing something, which is right that I have done. I have been ignored by media, society and I have been lambasted and lampooned by one and all so I don’t regret that and I am not sad. For four years I have seen all kinds of rejection. From telephone tapping to office of profit.

Have you been able to forgive all of that?
Telephone tapping, office of profit and monthly raid of income tax to people closely identified with me.

So how were you able to bury the hatched vis-à-vis the Congress and Sonia Gandhi specifically?
I don’t think it was the doing of Sonia Gandhi. There are many people, but it was done.

You directly accused Sonia of phone tapping.
Yes I did. Because when tempers are running high and when there is an atmosphere of mistrust, all kinds of things are said. So either you rake the past and don’t move forward. And Chautala said I will be ditched and be taken for a ride. I would like to tell all my detractors that I am not a seeker and Congress is not a giver. If I seek something and they promise and then they don’t fulfill their promise, the question of ditching comes. I went to 10, Janpath not to seek anything. I went to Race Course Road not to seek anything and I am saying it on record that when there is no seeking and no giving and this was also said that she went to Mayawati’s place, you should not have gone to her place, this is all absolutely wrong. I have said earlier also that ego, bias, prejudices shouldn’t come your way if you want to do politics. I don’t think past should be raked. In the past there is mistake from both the side and more than Sonia Gandhi I will say people in between create more mischief. They added fuel to the fire and they will still try to do that. But one best thing that has happened now is that this time whatever little contact I had with PM or with Sonia Gandhi, it was direct. Two very senior Cabinet Ministers considered to be very close, who I will not name, they came to me and claimed that Mrs Gandhi is very hostile with you and is very upset with you but we can play a role in the settlement if you place the support of your 39 MPs to Congress. And these people are perceived to be very big and powerful.

Name them…
I will not name them. I don’t want to make their life miserable in their own set up. I also very seriously said you are right and that I am in a soup. But Sonia Gandhi did not look at him and I am surprised that a very very senior journalist of national repute phoned me and he was not asking about Indo-US nuclear deal but my meeting with Soniaji. What was offered to me – tea or coffee, lunch or high tea, pastry or cake, what was the dish and what was the quantity. I felt sad that this was the level of journalism. And then I got the answer of all my past problems with the Congress and Congress President. When senior Cabinet ministers meddle like this and they are out on a credit grabbing spree and play this kind of a role, then naturally they will create a crisis in order to get an opportunity to manage that crisis. They are the creators and managers of the crisis. This time there was no middleman. Soniaji was interacting with me. Manmohan Singhji always interacted with me. Even when UNPA was there and our fight with Congress was there. Even when I was supposed to have gate crashed the dinner. One hour before his swearing in, he personally phoned me asking me to attend. I said I don’t have an invitation and that your party leaders will club me as a gate crasher again. He said don’t be silly, an invitation is being sent to you please come. That was the level and quality of relationship I shared with him. I never said that because if I had, then the journalists would have said I am basking in reflected glory. Because in the recent past you acknowledged this, I am also accepting his humble graciousness. But it was always there. It has never diminished. For Sonia’s direct approach to deal with this problem now, I will give credit to Rahul’s gesture. When my father expired, he sent me a very emotional letter and then we spoke on telephone. The fact of life is that I have never met Rahul on one to one basis till this date. I have seen him twice. Once at an NDTV party where there was a distant hello and second time at the Madhavrao Scindia Memorial lecture.

You are helping the government survive and you will probably help the deal go through. It suits the Congress to have your support. How does it suit the Samajwadi Party?
I am not here to talk about suitability and I don’t blame you because in this materialistic world of give and take…

You said we could be blunt…
Yes, yes. Everyone talks like that. Goodness has got no value in this materialistic world. If I am good, it’s my way of, you may say, revenge. Somebody – I am not talking of Soniaji but the entire set up who went and told Sonia Gandhi that we (the SP) are unreliable, undependable, they are bad and mischievous, they are unscrupulous, unethical, I want to prove the Vinod Mehtas and Tavleen Singhs of the world and many politicians like those Cabinet Ministers who are trying to be meddlesome I am sure they would have created mischief that Amar Singh is a hard nut to crack. Till the last date I kept telling them that I am very upset with the Congress and that I am not going to support them. I never gave my mind to them that I might support the deal. If the decision-making process of the Congress is surrounded by such gentleman, then why should I blame Sonia Gandhi. I have understood her problem. I have realised my mistake and I will take it forward.

Should Prakash Karat be feeling betrayed by you?
I don’t think he should feel betrayed because then even I should feel betrayed. Because in that dinner that I went to, was not on my own because Soniaji had not invited me. I went there because CPI-M dragged me, forced me. If Surjeet will tell me to come along, what do I do? I was given the name of gatecrasher. I still feel bad. I have bread available in my kitchen so I am not that hungry for food and recognition that I will gatecrash anyone’s house. I went there. How would I know that Surjeet hadn’t spoken to Sonia Gandhi? On record he admitted that it was his endeavor. And thereafter if there was miscommunication or feeling of injury, was it not the responsibility of Left party to repair that? They left that injury on that point. From then on, the entire politics was on the premise that Samajwadi party and Congress bonhomie is over and that Samajwadi party has no political option left. My injury and hurt began four years ago when the Leftists initiated the process of taking me to Sonia Gandhi’s place and left me high and dry and then they were nicely in all the committees, in the decision making process. They were not bothered about telephone tapping, raids, and all the CBI cases unleashed. And let me tell you very frankly that if there was a Nandigram, there was my support for them in the Parliament. But if there was Nithari, there was Brinda Karat positioned along with Subhashini Ali in Noida.

So you have not spared me but even then Mulayam Singh and Amar Singh have not spoken against Communists. We will not speak. And we are not speaking. And about Prakash Karat’s veto to save our government against Sonia Gandhi’s wish I will simply say one thing. During the IK Gujaral government, Mulayam Singh was the defence minister and dismissed Kalyan Singh’s BJP-government. The President returned that decision. And Chandrababu Naidu was the convenor. He defended the BJP government and they got a big thank you from Advani for not executing Article 356 against the BJP’s state government. So I never maintained that they are friends of Kalyan Singh and BJP. Opposing 356 is their principled stand. They will again oppose misuse of 356 even if it is done against Mayawati. So I am not saying I don’t feel grateful. If Advani feels grateful to Jyoti Basu and Surjeet for not implementing 356 against Kalyan Singh, I will be very grateful if you say that we are not grateful for Comrade Karat’s veto for saving us. I am sure that Soniaji for whatever reason and Mayawati and Advani were having a common programme of finishing Samajwadi party and it was only Prakash who vetoed it.

And the formation of Third Front would have happened if the Left would not have gone with Congress. If Left would have taken Samajwadi party and its strength right from the beginning, we were repeatedly saying take us with you, but Prakash was saying I have to keep Congress on board and I will have to keep you on board. Once somebody asked me what is the status of your party with Left and Congress. I said: ‘Pati, Patni and Woh’. We are the ‘who’ in the relationship. The other woman syndrome. I jokingly said. So I don’t think politics has got anything to do with betrayal and hurt and agree with comrade Karat that Imperialism is a big danger. Bush is an imperialist. The role of Bush in Iraq and Iran cannot to be supported and India’s vote against Iran is also a disgusting act. I am not disagreeing. But I would like to know -- can they support something which has the blessing of Mamata Banerjee in Bengal? Can Chandrababu Naidu go with Reddy? And Chautala support Hooda? So how can anyone expect that Samajwadi party will take support of BSP and BJP to topple this government? So this is my basic problem. And the aggressive laboratory of Hindutva, we are responsible for stopping the growth of communal forces. I am not saying that the Communists have not fought against the BJP but Kerala, Bengal and Tripura they don’t have BJP like they had in UP. Congress has not got opportunity and capacity to fight them and finish them. We have finished them. Murali Manohar Joshi, Chinmyanand, Vinay Katiyar were finished by us. We brought them down from 40 to 10. And on price rise and inflation and role of Murli Deora representing the interest of private sector refineries and windfall profit, we have opposed that. And we have only raised the topic of price rise and inflation and petroleum ministry’s role not their head with PM and Sonia Gandhi during our meeting. Period.

According to some people, you have done this on behalf of Anil Ambani. I am sorry to ask you this but this is …
This is very disgusting. That is why I don’t meet journalists. I am not angry and I don’t feel like talking because they have no business to talk to me like this unless they have proof. So if I insinuate something against your character by any conjecture how will you feel?

You are a good friend (of Anil Ambani….)
Murli Deora is a very good friend of Mukesh and he is Petroleum Minister and nobody is talking about that. If friendship has got anything to do with that, why are you not saying that he is not only a very good friend with Mukesh, he is very badly identified with Lakshmi Mittal. If I say he is not Murli Deora but Murli Mukesh Mittal, that will not be a wrong statement to make. What have I done for furthering Anil Ambani’s business? For the spectrum allocation precisely, I wrote the letter, which will hurt Anil Ambani also. It will hit and hurt everyone – Vodafone, Essar, Airtel. .. I have done precisely to ensure that I become eligible to reply to questions like yours madam. This is a very difficult proposition that you people will not let me have social friends also. I am an industrialist on my own right and he is not Dawood Ibrahim. He is a close friend of mine. If tomorrow I come to power. The same question used to be hurled at Amitabh Bachchan that he is holidaying with Rajiv Gandhi in Lakshwadeep so it must have been done by him. So conjectures and anticipations is a very very bad thing. If you are seen with a gentleman it does not necessarily mean you are having an affair. In the same manner if I am friendly with somebody it does not mean that I am pursuing his corporate interests. Then I will not be in politics. My thing is based on logic. Forget about Anil Ambani sponsored tirade or mine. To maintain the price of steel and cement, their export is banned. Petroleum price rise is also a problem. So if steel and cement’s export is banned, then why not petroleum products? When government companies are selling petrol, private refineries are closing their pumps and converting them into real estate. And to top it all they have been given the status of 100 percent export oriented unit. And you want to say that Murli Deora is currently in Spain in the International Energy Board meeting. And they have also condemned the government’s decision to giving export-oriented status to Reliance refinery. You mean to say Amar Singh has manipulated that also courtesy Anil Ambani? It’s not the question of Anil Ambani’s interest or Mukesh Ambani’s interest. If International Energy Board, which is being attended by Murli Deora, is saying this, take a view of that. Forget that Amar Singh has given a letter. Either Anil Ambani is that powerful or Mukesh Ambani is that weak. Secondly stop banning exports for cement and steel. Open them. Don’t discriminate. I am sorry to talk like this because you had been very crude and terse in your question.

Fair, but you are in public life. The intention was not to annoy you..
I am not angry. I am very hurt. I am not one of those MPs who will sign any letter on anybody’s giving. I know my subject. I know what I am talking. I know the reasons. I know what is there in the spectrum. The rate is fixed on the State Bank rate. Why? Kumar Mangalam Birla will be affected. He is a very good friend of mine. He was member of UP development council. As a public man I am nobody’s friend. With the same pattern then, Chidambaram should not be representing Finance Ministry. Whose friend is he not? He is everybody’s lawyer. He was even director of Anil Agarwal's Vedanta. So according to you, madam, we should be professional politicians and we should not pursue our individual careers. I am very sorry.

Too close for comfort: Singh says Anil Ambani is 'family' Photo: AP

You are entitled to your friendships. Coming back to the issue of communalism, because one of your reasons for supporting the nuclear deal is to keep the secular government intact but the Babri Masjid was demolished during the Congress regime. Also, the. Congress has not been particularly proactive vis-à-vis the Gujarat carnage of 2002.
It does make me uncomfortable. That is the bone of contention between us. But the choice is between Bush, Advani, Congress and Manmohan Singh. The imperialism of Bush is likely to end in two months. And as per the US Constitution he will be history. But the guru of the politics of hatred – LK Advani -- who is the hard face, the chariot runner of aggressive Hindutva, the high priest of the laboratory of aggressive Hindutva of Kashi and Mathura, is on his way to become Prime Minister. He is not at all apologetic about the minority massacre in Gujarat. According to him it’s an act of bravery of Narendra Modi. He is not Atal Behari Vajpayee. He is not the soft, liberal face of saffron brigade. We will have to choose between the imperialism of Bush, the hardcore Hindutva of Advani and the soft attitude of Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi. In this selection I will definitely opt for Manmohan Singh.

In a radio interview to BBC in 2007, you said LK Advani was your hero. Today you’re calling the same man lethal.
No I have not said hero. I said I admire the attitude of Advani, that he is very blunt and forthright and that he is not bothered about the consequences. That part of his personality is praiseworthy. My personal regard for him remains. I am nobody to criticise and condemn LK Advani the person. He has been very nice, good and cordial to me. I have a great equation with his daughter Pratibha. He has the capacity to segregate political rivalry and personal animosity. I can condemn him in an interview. When I say he is more dangerous than Bush, I am not talking about him as a person. I am talking about the Advani the rath yatri, the supporter of Narendra Modi, the protagonist of the hardcore RSS philosophy. I am not talking about Advani the doting father, the emotional journalist who cries watching films. It is very unfortunate that I am misunderstood. The new culture of politics is either you are friend or enemy.

Have you set the issue of Sonia Gandhi’s foreign origin aside for the moment, or you don’t have any reservations on that any more?
The issue of foreign origin was settled by Sharad Pawar and Advaniji. When with his own autobiography, he went to greet Soniaji and accepted her dominance as national politician. When Sharad Pawar, the main propagator of the foreign origin issue, has accepted Sonia Gandhi I don’t see any reason. We are different party. The very existence for the NCP was the foreign origin issue.

I’ll ask you this question and we don’t intend to be rude. What makes Amar Singh tick?
This is not a rude question. But Anil Ambani was an insinuating question.

Vir Sanghvi has expressed the same view in the Hindustan Times. This question would surely have come your way…
I don’t read Vir Sanghvi’s column. Hindustan Times management has been very friendly with me. I was on their board for years and Vir has been a close, personal friend of mine. He has been consistently writing against me for the last seven-eight months. So each time I read his article I feel hurt because he is a friend. I have great respect for Mrs Bhartia, love for Vir but I am still sensitive. I have not become a thick-skinned shameless politician. He has gone on an agenda for reasons known to him. May god bless Vir.

So what makes Amar Singh tick? Breakfast with Bachchans, lunch with Sonia Gandhi and dinner with Anil Ambani..
I am not a multidimensional person. My heart, head and mouth are in sync. As far as the Bachchans are concerned, they are family to me. It’s not a big deal to have a meal with one’s family. In my hour of distress when nobody was coming to me, no journalist was wrangling for an interview and and I was of no consequence, even then lunch, dinner and everything with the Bachchan’s was on. Of course Anil Ambani is there but I am not ashamed or embarrassed of that friendship. Anil Ambani and Bachchans are my family. So for you Anil Ambani is a billionaire, brand Bachchan is a glamorous name but for me it’s not a big deal.

According to most political commentators and analysts, the Samajwadi party is high-risk business, that the Left was a more reliable ally. Should the Congress rest in peace or should they feel that the SP is high-risk business?
Politics itself is a high-risk business. If that is the thing, we should not do politics. Life too is a high-risk business. So good luck to these political commentators and analysts. I have no comment to make. But I will simply say one thing. I have not asked for anything. I have not bargained for anything. I am not a seeker and even then if I am high-risk, then I can’t say anything. But certainly

Old hands: Amar Singh with ( from left) Sharad Pawar, the late Chandrashekhar, Praful Patel and Sonia Gandhi Photo: AP

one thing is there. We will not compromise with our principles, esteem and dignity. We have shown our gesture on many counts. Much before all this happened, in Madhya Pradesh where we have eight MLAs, we supported a Congress candidate Vivek Tankha without anybody’s asking. No Congress leader of consequence came to see me. Only Suresh Pachauri thanked me. These analysts must be those senior Cabinet Ministers and their ilk who wanted to play some role and were out on some credit-seeking spree and they were left high and dry without any credit. They have no role to play because the entire thing was handled by Manmohan Singhji and Soniaji and the endeavor to make relationship proper was made by Rahul. So they must be feeling left out. I can well imagine their frustrations. I sympathise with them.

So Rahul facilitated the meeting…
No I am not saying that. But he took the initiative of writing the letter when my father passed away and that lost link was established by him.

When you decided to support the government, did you speak to Mr Karat or anybody in the Left about it ?
I have not heard from him. But I gave enough hints to him when I came back from the US. I said we cannot be seen going with BSP along with BJP and I also told him about the reported meeting of Satish Chandra Mishra and Comrade Yechury was there. I said it will be very difficult for us after Advani’s pronouncement that BJP and BSP are one and also Jaswant Singh’s proposal. Prakash appreciated that. He also said that they had taken a stated position against the nuclear deal in the Central committee and Politburo that would be difficult to change. I jokingly said you are showing the rigidity that Manmohan Singh is showing and Manmohan Singh is showing the rigidity that Prakash Karat is showing. This rigidity will lead us to god knows what path. That was my concluding remark. And I left CPM headquarters. And all my friends, I have learnt from my past mistakes, I will not be overtly critical to anybody. If anybody has criticised and condemned me and they are hurt, they have got reasons. I wish them all the best; I thank them all including Prakash Karat, Chautala for their kindness vested upon me.

Last question. Why is it that when one thinks of the Samajwadi party, one thinks of Amar Singh before one thinks of Mulayam Singh Yadav?
It is the insanity of the English speaking, sophisticated, convent educated, high middle class, urban, intellectual crowd who fails to gel with the dhoti-clad, rural and gutsy unconventional politician who is from an akhara… And they are puzzled about what makes him tick. He does not talk fluent English. But he was the most successful defence minister. There was no scam during his regime. There was no controversy as compared to much more experienced George Fernandes. This is the lack of understanding of the urban crowd. This is not the fault of Mulayam Singh and this is not to the credit of Amar Singh.